FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT GRAMPIAN SAILBOATS
I will be keeping an eye on the other Grampian Forums and adding here any interesting information regarding repair and maintenance from these other sites plus any information you want to provide on "fixes" you have made to your Grampian that apply to all Grampian models and that others might find of interest. Please contact the Webmaster with any suggestions. If you do not find what you are looking for here, check the F.A.Q. pages for the different boat models. There may be something in one of those that will assist you. Also check the Club House. The discussion threads may have something of interest.
We bought a G26 in NY State and imported it into Ontario last October. The process is simple.
As others have said, there is no duty on Canadian or U.S. made boats coming into Canada.
When you import, you must pay the GST (federal Goods and Services Tax for our southern neighbours) and PST (Provincial Sales Tax). In Ontario, at least, all boat transfers pay the PST, so it doesn't matter where you buy.Private sales in Canada avoid the GST (8%), but dealer sales and imports pay it. So there's not a big difference tax-wise to the buyer between a U.S. or Canadian boat.
If you tow the boat yourself, you declare it at the border. They pull you aside where you pay the GST and PST. I've heard they may look closer at the trailer than the boat to make sure it meets roadworthiness standards.
We had Andrews Trucking of Niagara-on-the-Lake haul our boat (they did a great job, by the way). They're customs bonded, so they brought the boat to the customs warehouse in Hamilton (where I am) for the importation. I met the trucker at the warehouse, paid the sales tax and got the license numbers on the spot. This customs office, in fact, had a big poster on the wall listing the steps for importing a boat, and a stack of license forms on the counter. Fill out a couple of forms, hand over the credit card, and you're done.
So it's not difficult for a Canadian buyer to bring your boat home. Arranging transportation was the biggest job. If your G23 is on a trailer, that should be easy, too. (Thanks to Tim Nye) (Back)
Grampians are well built boats but as with any 30 year old boat, problems do occur. The most common advice given is that once you have found a boat you like, have it professionally surveyed. It may cost you a few hundred but it may save you thousands. Don't buy without a survey, you will have to get one for insurance purposes anyway.
Some of the areas you might want to check yourself first for obvious problems are the following:
- Deck delamination or spongy feeling caused by water entering. Tap over any suspect areas and if not sharp sound, may be a problem
- Check all the bulkheads and chain plates. Rot here may require replacement of bulkhead, glassing and other work. Not insurmountable but will stop you sailing for a while.
- Check the rudder itself carefully, ensure water not entering into it. Check the rudder shaft tube for leaks. You can see it by looking in from one of the cockpit storage areas. If the boat if out of the water, check the rudder shaft for wear.
- Check the windows for leaks, crazing or turning opaque
- Check the wiring and fuse panel/breaker box for obvious signs of corrosion. Check all lights work.
- Check standing rigging. If you encounter many "fish hooks" when you run hand over (be careful) may need replacing
There are other areas like the plumbing and head etc. but the most frequently asked about items are the rudder, bulkheads/chain plates and windows.
Have a knowledgeable sailing friend take that initial look at the boat with you. If you both like what you see, get the professional in. (Back)
I undertook a complete renovation of my Grampian 26. I had to paint the deck since the gelcoat was too far gone and I wanted to repair all the hairline cracks and other cracks and dents.
I used Interlux paints, 2 coats of 2 part epoxy primer and 2 coats of 2 part polyurethane. I was quite satisfied with the results. The paints were applied basically with a thin nap roller and the results were good. It takes a bit of practice to get the paint thinning right. A lot of care must go into the preparation:
- cleaning
- dewaxing with a solvent wash
- sanding everything with 80 grit
- repairing the cracks:
- small hairlines: opening them with a Dremel tool and filling
- bigger cracks: repairing with fiberglass tape
I tried as much as possible to identify the source of the cracks such as no backing plates under stanchion bases and correct this. I had cracks between the cabin walls and the deck. I opened those and covered
with a thickened epoxy mixture ( ideally with fibers) topped with a sandable epoxy mixture smoothed with a spoon to create a cove.
I also had to identify the delaminations and repair them either by opening up and removing the bad balsa and replacing with epoxy or by injecting epoxy if the wood was dry. This is the worst part of the job and if you skip on this cracks will reemerge.
Also I removed all fixtures
Painting over the antiskid can lead to slippery antiskid if it is already worn. Several solutions are possible but in my case, I sanded it down and covered with antiskid pads . This is expensive but gives a very good result both esthetically and from a security standpoint.
The job I did, which was as complete as could be, ( removing all hardware and repairing all cracks) took me more than 250 hours, but the paint job itself was relatively quick, about 25-30 hours.( 2 coats 2 parts epoxy primer and 2 coats 2 part polyurethane)
The results with a roller and some foam brushes, while not a 'mirror finish' and more like 'orange peel' is quite good and professional looking if you take care to catch the paint runners with the foam brush. But I would definitely say that 2 part epoxy is a pain in the neck and requires care in terms of the correct thinning. You have to practice to get the feel. Also you have to proceed quickly and not go over and over the same area. It is not easy and it is a messy job.
The results after 2 years are still as new. The 2 part paint is very resistant and I have read that it could last 10 years especially in our latitudes. I certainly hope so.
As for the spider cracks covered with the epoxy primer they have so far not reappeared
(Thanks to Eric Maille for this) (Back)
I painted the hull and deck of my G26 a couple of years ago. Did a very thorough job on the hull, less thorough on the deck as we were running out of time.
On the hull (flag blue) we sanded three times starting with 80 grit and ending with 250 grit. We patched all the nicks and bumps with Bondo which is actually an automotive market product but which worked really well. We did not have any blisters on the hull or I would probably have used something more specifically marine.
We then used two coats of Interlux's 2 part epoxy and three coats of their 2 part finish. Sanded between each coat starting with 250 grit and ending with 800 grit. Applied the paint with a 6" foam roller and tipped it with a brush dipped in the reducer. I was pretty pleased with the results although I think one more coat would have given the perfectly glossy and deep finish of spraying. This method left no orange peel. Part of the trick is to thin the paint much more than you would think-- the thinner the coat the better, less build = less orange peel.
On the deck we filled all holes with Bondo and painted with the one-part urethane finish in a tan color. On the non-skid we used flat finish on the smooth parts we used high gloss.
I also re-glazed the cabin windows at the same time and while I had the aluminium trim pieces out we spray painted them with a high gloss white enamel.
I was pretty pleased with the effect over all. When I pulled into the slip for the first time after the paint job the neighbor shouted out, "now there's an old girl who's looking good." Guess that was good enough.
(Thanks to M. Reynolds for this) (Back)
- I did it about 7 years ago, and used Imrrom by Dupont, this is polyurethane paint, is used also in aircraft painting.
I
f you subscribe to "Practical Sailor" their Feb. 15, 2003 issue rates topside paints. Their quote re "One -Part Wonders" is as follows:"One-Part wonders Interlux Toplac and Epifanes Mono-Urethane give two-part brews a run for
their money--a short way into a long event".As stated earlier, I used Toplac (white) three years ago and with good preparation (as Interlux recommends) and application with a 3" foam roller, it took a weekend. My deck hardware was removed for rebedding, so I'm sure that contributed to the short time to do the job. It still has that "new waxed" shine three years later.
- I don't have much experience on this subject. However, I did use Interlux one part on the cockpit which included some of the nonskid surface. The thing I did correctly was to thin the paint and roll it on with a very short nap roller. This prevented clogging up the nonskid pattern and destroying its usefulness. (Back)
Rot in the bulkheads is one of the more common problems in older boats and Grampians are no different. Since one of the chain plates attaches to the bulkhead, this can be a dangerous situation and requires the replacement of the bulkheads. A few questions?
- What's "acceptable" material.....is teak or marine plywood absolutely necessary or will regular treated plywood suffice?
- How thick....1/2, 5/8, 3/4?
- Mine (a '73) doesn't appear to have screws and/or any fibreglassing. Is epoxying acceptable? If epoxying is acceptable should I also expoxy along the hull side? Is there any reason to fiberglass along the hull side?
- I'd like to remove as much of the old bulkhead in tact so I can use as a template.......any pointers on best way to remove without causing further damage?
Responses:
- Use 3/4" marine ply, teak or mahogany veneer each side
- The bulkheads are held in place with screws and not fibreglass or epoxy. You will find them behind the head, and across the top of the forward port locker. You will have to remove the centre top teak piece from between the bulkheads. This is a bit tricky but once you see the angle they used at the factory, it comes together and gets easy. You will also have to unscrew the shelving in the forepeak.
- You can loosen off the fore and backstays, and totally disconnect your front and rear lower shrouds, leaving just your uppers and slack front and back stays as mast support while you proceed to replace your forward bulkheads.
That will take any pressure off the cabin trunk roof and make your inside work a proper fit.
Don't forget - when you are all finished, always tighten up your fore and backstays much tighter than your uppers. They don't create the compression that the upper and lower shrouds do- Remove the old bulkheads (both port & starboard) and use them as templates on your new 3/4" ply. Don't forget to use the old bulkheads as a template to mark where all the screws go back in.
- Cut out the new bulkheads, sand where necessary to get the correct fit, mount them into place with the screws, and you are good for another 15 to 20 years. (Thanks to Jim Quibell)
Unstep the mast, or at a minimum loosen all the tension off the shrouds and forestay and backstay, to reduce the load on the cabin trunk roof. This will allow it to spring up so the new bulkheads may be fitted better.
Make the bulkheads fit tight as possible into their space with the mast unstepped. The bulkheads are the structural support for the cabin trunk, mast, mainsail and boom, and all the tension on the shrouds, so you don't want any space for the trunk roof to flex downward before resting on the bulkheads.
Where there are woodscrews holding the bulkheads to the hull liner, replace them with stainless machine screws, washers and nuts. Drill through the liner and put the nuts on from inside the storage lockers.
Woodscrews into fiberglass are a one-shot deal and replacements don't hold very well.
You can use fiberglass tape (I believe it was 2" wide tape he suggested) and epoxy to "tab" the perimeter of the bulkheads to the hull liner. As these boats have all survived 30+ years without tabbing from the factory, this addition is optional. (Tips from Gill Bibby to Tim Nye) (Back)
Remove the 4 screws at the bottom of the bulkhead on the head or hanging locker side. It'll be necessary to
- How do you remove the forward bulkheads?
remove the head shelf which butts up against the bulkhead. It's necessary to remove the teak trim board that
bridges the port and starboard bulkheads.Should be able to remove bulkhead by pushing at bottom from v-berth side (may be necessary to "pry" off from
the v berth side by inserting flat blade (i.e., screwdriver) between bulkhead and locker).
There should be no screws or adhesive at top of bulkhead
- Special notes:
The vinyl trim that runs along the top of the bulkheads contains wiring for lights on head and v berth side of the
port bulkhead.The trim piece that bridges the port and starboard bulkheads is secured by 4 screws (2 on each side) slotted
from the bottom and top.Carefully remove the bulkhead as you will need it as a template to construct it's replacement.
(Thanks to Joe Gilmore) (Back)Go to Bulkhead Replacement for photos of one replacement project.
The question has been asked whether it is safe to sail with a stay attached to the toe rail if there is a problem with one of the stays (rotten bulkhead)? The general consensus appears to be that this should not be attempted under anything but emergency circumstances (lets go while sailing.) As one person stated, "If the toerail was strong enough, boat manufacturers would have saved the cost of chainplates by eliminating them long ago."
(Back)
Question? I need a little help with my batteries.I want to hook up 2 batteries on my boat. I have the big switch that has 4 positions (battery 1, battery 2, both, off). The positive side is pretty easy to figure out, but do I take the 2 negative cables and bolt them together on the negative terminal bar?
Suggestions: That's the way mine are hooked up to the 4 position switch, but on reading more on the topic of battery switches I am finding that you definitely must have fuses in place. Many are not recommending the use of these switches any more.
There is a huge amount of current wiring information on the www.sailboatowners.com website. Go to the archives - type in "wiring battery switches" - mark "all" and stand back. You will be amazed at what will come up for you. West Marine also has wiring details on the on line catalogue under battery advisor.
Another site to check is www.amplepower.com They know 12 volt systems and have many wiring details on their site. (Jim Quibell)Take a look here on the Grampian Links page and here for trouble shooting. Both are .pdf files. (Webmaster) (Back)
Question: I'm looking for advice on window replacement on my Grampian 23. I have one window cracked all the way across and "starred" at bolt/screw holes. This window leaks quite badly. Should replacement material be Lexan, Plexiglass or some other material?
Any advice regarding the fitting of the windows would be appreciated. The current windows are frameless - just sit on the outside of the openings overlapping by about one inch and held ( I think) by adhesive and screws. The screws go through the window and the fibreglass and into a receiving nut of some kind on the inside of the cabin. I think a lot of the cracking is due to these screws having been over-tightened.Suggestions: I have experience replacing windows on sailboats and I think the most important aspect of replacing windows like these is to slot the mounting holes in the acrylic or Plexiglass. The fiberglass expands at a different rate and often cracks the window if there is a hole just large enough for the fastener. I also have a Grampian 23 that I recently bought and am going to fill the window opening and install
opening portholes with screens. A much more ambitious undertaking! (Dave Ruiz)
I've got the G26 that I did the windows on this weekend. I removed the old frames completely.....man did Grampian love to silicone those in. I reused the white weather stripping that covers the raw fiberglass edge. A bit of soap and water and they came clean. Once all the old silicone and goop of previous owner trying to stop leaks was removed I got down to a clean surface. I used tinted Lexan 3/16" thick. Lexan is more expensive than Lucite or Plexi, but Plexi suffers from clouding problems and Lexan is a bit more durable than Lucite. I purchased mine at a local glass shop and had them cut a rectangle shape. It is easy to shape with a 20 teeth/inch jigsaw and belt sander for final shaping. used the old frames to cut the shape. I made them about an inch wider and longer than the original frames. moving the frames accordingly to compensate for the oversize during tracing. I did this to cover any old marks from old window i.e. fading gel coat, I drilled holes every 6" around the outside. For sealant I used black glazing tape, this stuff is really sticky but doesn't dry out. I through bolted using 3/4" binder bolts (sometimes called Chicago Bolts). The screw goes into a tube that has a flat end with a slot, so that they are flat inside and out, I didn't want a nut on the inside. Don't over compress as you want the glazing tape to remain in roughly the same thickness, just snugged to the window and fiberglass. This took the weekend to do at the marina, a day/ side to get them out and prepared, then took my time getting them on so they looked right....plus the assorted break as everyone stops by to see what's up and have a beverage. oh well ...tis life at the dock!! At the end i let the hose run on them for about 15 min. and no leaks. Haven't had rain yet, but don't foresee a problem.
The G26 three slips down did the same thing last year except he didn't through bolt, he used 5/8" #10 screws and went through the gelcoat and into the core as he didn't want to see any nuts inside. He's had no problems, but I didn't like the look of the pan head screws and preferred the flat screw head of the binder bolts.
I got the binder bolts at Spaenar in Kitchener for $24/hundred. they were 61 cents each at the hardware store when I finally found them. They come in aluminum and plastic. In hindsight I should have got the white plastic heads for inside and the black plastic tube end for outside to blend with the tinted windows instead of all the silver buttons, but after screwing about 80 of these on I won't change them soon. (S. Piper)
Grampian never used silicone on the windows as you mentioned - they only used the grey butyl sealing material that was used as well by C&C and CS to name a few. You can still obtain the original butyl sealing material from Holland Marine in Toronto.
I notice that a few owners have chosen to use the screws, binder fasteners, etc. rather than replacing with the original material, but if it works for you - great. Replacing the windows is so easy when you use the original materials, and you can do all six ports in one day.
Plexiglas is the material that is recommended for port replacement. It doesn't scratch as easily as Lexan. Lexan is softer than Plexiglas, and Lexan crazes much more quickly than does Plexiglas There are a number of lengthy discussions on this topic on the various Grampian Forums site. (Jim Quibell)
Binder posts are not "accounting book" fasteners they are a description applied to a fastener in which a threaded portion screws into a tubed type nut that has a star or slot type crease on the top. You end up with a nut and bolt type fastener that has a smooth barrel with over sized caps for sealing. They are commercially available from most good industrial type hardware stores and are bought in boxes of hundreds. The sealant of choice is "Polyshim" from Tremco. This is a memory retentive extruded profile that will retain its shape and sealing properties for years. It is cheap and easy to apply and not messy. It will tend to weep in the heat. Do not over tighten the binder posts. Snug them just a little over finger tight and you will be able to adjust for years. As for the window material it is a matter of choice. Many really good plastic materials are commercially available and the durability and flexibility is largely a function of price. Nomex is ideal if you want t o dispense money or stop bullets. I re sealed the windows on my G30 over 6 years ago in the manner described and anticipate that they will see me out!
Some models' windows were fitted with an aluminum frame and some were not. Mine is not. Either way Polyshim is the sealant of choice. It is a non weeping extruded semi rubber compound that has an aluminum profile through its entire length. It amazingly retains the profile under most conditions that you might expected in North America. It is bought as a roll. You unwind it, press it gently to the gel coat and locate your window, tighten up the binder posts as previously suggested and "Voila!". Success. I think I used very small amounts of SikoFlex 291 on the outer sleeve of the binder posts as I installed them to ensure a water tight seal between the laminates. The advantage is low mess, nothing sets on you, and you can take your time and enjoy the job. Once you locate one or two binder posts you just proceed at your pace. I also use two parallel polyshim tapes around each window . Unnecessary, but I like a little too much at times.. No clean up, no leaks and home for lunch or out for a sail. I used the inside of the binder post to mount inside mahogany window trim which cleaned the entire job up very nicely Hope it works out for you. (Geoff Hearns)
As stated above, check the various Grampian discussion groups for other ideas and suggestions on window replacement and leak stopping. There are many if you search. (Back)
Question: What have owners done to ensure they have sufficient electrical power for long trips, especially if they want refrigeration?
Suggestions:
I am a member of a sailing club that is all moorings and has no electricity at the docks. We are all cruising all the time as far as electricity is concerned. I have been working on my G26 simple electric system for 4 seasons and have come to the conclusion that a combination of solar panels, wind generator and motor alternator are ideal.
I have only 2 normal deep cycle batteries hooked up in parallel amounting to 55 amps max. With them I run my running lights, anchor light, auto helm, stereo, GPS, depth finder and start the motor. I do not light my interior with the main electrical system, I use solar patio lamps & cheap battery lanterns for my interior lights. I have a 15hp electric start Honda with a small charging unit. I only run the motor when leaving or returning to the mooring, going short distances (2 miles or less) or when the wind is against me so I am lucky to run it more than 50hrs a year. My main electrical energy re-supplier is a 15W solar panel that keeps my system topped up. My batteries have never been below 12v and are usually above 13.5v. My season is from late April to mid October and I use my boat every day for at least 4 hours. I believe it is possible to generate more electricity than your storage system can manage.
I bought my ICP 15W (1amp) solar panel on sale at CTC 3 years ago and it has worked like a champ. I start charging in late April when I launch and the unit keeps everything topped up until late October. I suspect topping up 2 batteries (30 amp/hr. each) is the unit's limit. I am on fresh water so I don't know what it would be like on the ocean.
I have 3 neighbors that built their own windmills to charge their massive 700 amp live aboard systems in boats that range from 36' to 50'. As near as I can tell to keep up with them and their refrigeration units the batteries necessary would weigh so much they would raise the waterline on my G26 about 1'.
Your battery bank needs to be protected with a regulator of some sort so it doesn't get over charged. You can charge a 12v battery up to about 14v before the battery starts to over-heat & breakdown. My ICP 15w solar panel is mounted horizontally off my stern pulpit with heavy duty aluminum accessory holders. Because I am on a mooring (same as an anchor) I don't have any neighbours or obstructions blocking the sun so I get maximum advantage of my panel. Several times this year my regulator (ICP Controller) cut power off from the solar panel to the bank because the panel was overcharging the 2 batteries. The regulator also shuts off the panel power when the motor is running.
If you are talking refrigeration for a cruising boat you might need to figure in your estimated amp hours according to the insulation value of your fridge box. That will tell you how big your battery bank needs to be and whether you need a windmill as well to act as an aggressive charger when the winds are good. (Brian Lumley)
I used a 15w ICP panel - I won it - Anyway the 15 watts would indicate a little more than an Amp of output so I was excited! In practice, however, Its output is more like 0.25 amps - I installed a meter & the 3sq ft panel takes up a lot of space - mine was somewhat helpful, but in the end it's just a sheet of glass & unfortunately didn't last the season. I also found that shadow really reduced output as well as anything covering the panel - a bird dropping is effectively a switch! For the money, it might be OK to trickle a boat that isn't often sailed, but as an effective power source the ICP panel is disappointing. The high efficiency panels that produce higher voltages and 75 watts are a different technology. I'm in Toronto too & our live-aboard guys look to wind power here. (John Waddell)
I
also have the ICP 15W panel mounted on an arch I constructed off the stern pulpit. We run a Koolatron (sucks big amps) but with 2 deep cells can run it, the lights, water pump, and occasional TV for those rainy nights.. Panel keeps up for about 3 days without running engine so it's great for weekends.We do 2 weeks straight often and between panel and occasional motor use we haven't had a problem. I have had previously not enough juice to electric start outboard, unplugged Koolatron and within 3 hrs had enough juice to start engine. If I had to get going sooner I could always pull start. (S Piper) (Back)
Keel rust is an ongoing problem with the Grampians that have cast-iron keels. Rust spots and worse are common leading to many questions on what should be done to prevent an annual repair job. While it is unsightly while the boat is on the hard and if you are a serious racer may cause some drag in the water, for most of us it may be a case of "out of sight. out of mind" and the keel will never rust away in your life time.
For those of you who do want to effect a more permanent fix to the rust problem, here are some ideas:
- There is a full description of the treatment recommended by one owner at this address: http://www.grampianowners.com/Links/Keel_Rust.pdf
- From Briggs Monteith, "I had some rust spots on the keel, I worked in a boat yard at the time, and the painter recommended sand blasting the entire keel, priming it with epoxy primer( us paints 545 epoxy primer was what I used), then I scuffed the primer with 180grit sandpaper. Then I filled it with epoxy filler (not bondo) west system epoxy has an excellent product line. then I sanded that smooth and primed it again with epoxy primer. Then I applied bottom paint. It took two weekends!"
- From Tim Nye: "In addition to what Briggs said about sandblasting, if you're just touching up smaller spots, you can use an angle grinder.
Grind off all the loose and rusty stuff until you're down to bare metal surrounded by good paint. If the iron surface is too rough for the grinding wheel to get into the nooks and crannies, you can get wire cup brushes (~$15-20) for the grinder that will clean out the pits much better.
The epoxy primers seem pretty good. I heard a guy from Interlux talk once, and he said you want to get the primer on within a couple hours because the bare metal will start to oxidize in the air and will make the coating less effective.
Since you're grinding old bottom paint, I'll suggest a good dust mask, tyvek coveralls, eye protection and washing good afterwards"
I sail in Lake Huron, a large fresh water lake. I do not have your problem, but I am a consultant and I specialize in erosion, corrosion protection in the Petrochemical and Nuclear Power Industries. It is how i make my living.
Salt water posses serious problems in corrosion protection. To do the job so it does not reoccur, means a series of steps.
Typically to solve a corrosion problem completely, this is what must be done. I will give you the text book way. In reality, it's done with short cuts ( that I also know)
The sub straight must be blast cleaned using only an angular grit blast to achieve a profile of 3 to 5 mil. In salt water this usually has to be repeated. The sub straight must then be degreased using acetone or MEK. Do not use Varsol or paint thinners. They leave a residue. Once you have achieved your profile it is imperative you apply your coating within 4 hrs. of blasting. Oxidation immediately starts again when you blast clean. If you leave it, the areas of oxidation that are now forming, now become potential areas for failure. What you are trying to accomplish is completely encasing the keel, so no oxidation can take place.It is a lot of work, but it does work. To help I would like to make the following suggestion. When you grind try if you have the tools, to grind at a slow speed. High speed grinding has the tendency to want to polish the keel. What you want to do is create a surface that what ever you put on has a chance to anchor its self to the lead. This is what the blast profile creates. But for sure, use acetone or MEK to clean the surface before you apply any coating. It is easily brushed on and helps dramatically improve a successful application of any coating going on. This step takes no more than 10 minutes and will only cost about $ 6.00 in acetone. Money well spent. (Greg Faubert)
Another annual task is painting the bottom of the boat to reduce marine growth on it. Here are the views of a few owners on this task on what to do and what to use. After learning the hard way my recommendation if you are using an ablative paint is to use less rather than more. Thinning the paint reduces build up and is cheaper.
The harder the bottom paint, the harder it is to remove, regardless of how you do it. I am currently doing three, One is a 1997 Mac 26', I power washed it when I pulled it at 1850psi, wet sanded in about two hours and is prepped and ready. It had Petit Hydroseal on it a water based bottom paint. It also had been in the water for the last five years and had a huge growth of danzella on it, hit it with the power washer and stink, man it would stink.The second boat was a 2002 Catalina 25', again with Petit Hydroseal on it. Dealers like the Hyroseal due to it being a water base and cheap. Anyway, again a power wash at 1850 and a couple of hours wet sanding and it's ready, in fact it's finished, about 10 hours start to finish. The Mac is not painted yet as it is a swing keel and that takes longer anyway with all the back crawling.The third is a real basxxrd! It is a 93 Hunter 27', it has been painted several times, had never been sealed. I pulled it, power washed it and low and behold, blisters, blisters and more blisters. The first bottom was done by the dealer, the remaining jobs done by a local "professional shop", it was sprayed, not rolled, never barrier coated. You can see the different layers as you sand. Now with this one I have been fighting weather a little, the first two. One I prepped in the fall and have the keel off for other problems, the second I did about 10 days ago and weather was grand, the final one I have had bad weather days to do it. In fact Sat we had winds 40 with gusts over 45, air temps in the low 60's. Not good weather for wet sanding and stripping three coats off. So yes I had to use the old method, the DeWalt DA, SMURF time. It took two hours to strip the keel, will keep you posted on the progress. The first layer came off pretty easily, the remaining two not so fast, still working on them, wishing for a warmer day. This boat ended up with over 450 blisters, three layers of bottom paint and will be just plain more time intensive.Last fall I stripped an epoxy job, due to the colder weather did the DeWalt thing, it took about 60 hours and about a hundred bucks in discs, strippers wouldn't touch it.Also the paper and grit are important. It seems that all the cans say, sand with 80Gt in preperation for paint.Well most of the wet sanding I use is with 100 grt wet or dry, the dark gray stuff, it is better paper than open coat and lasts longer. Two of the above boats I used less than half of an 8.5X11 sheet of paper. For the epoxy stirp job it took probably 100 discs. If I have a really hard one, I will move to 80 grt wet or dry, have never had to go coaser.For dry sanding, I use a tyvex suit, positive pressure resperator if I can, a two stage if I can't, and a DeWalt 6" DA(dual action) sander. The grits I use for this range from 120 to 40, yes 40. If I have to use 40 like on epoxy I hit it fast and keep moving, then move to 80 for a final sand, I use 120 on the leading and trailing edges. This is an area that cuts really fast. You will develop a touch and each boat is a little unique due to age, number of coats, type of paint etc. and you will do the little things a little different,Bottom line, your method has to match the bottom and the weather.Wet sanding advantages, cuts fast, no dust to breath, gives you great pecs and arms. But you need a little warm weather here, in a short sailing season this may be hard to get. It also is pretty forgiving unlike dry you can cut the gel coat pretty fast if you get the DA cocked. I prefer it when I have the weather as I have experienced some of the problems associated with it, got blue sinus, even got my liver out of whack once, respritory stress etc.Chemical stripping can be done on the gooey ones like VC Tar, the paper just loads too fast to get anything done. Fumes can be toxic and have long term negative effects.Blasting also works for the VC Tar, is quick, easy but can be expensive, I would NOT do sand, would only do soda blasting but personally would only do it on Tar, never a paint. Dealers like it because it's fast.What ever method you use, think your health first.I do every bottom like it was my bottom. I used to work on this old guys little fishing boat, he's dead now, but he loved that boat. He never made a great deal of money and that little 16' fishing boat was his yacht, it was spick and span always. One of my guys got a little sloppy with it and spilled some anti-freeze on it, it really pee'd me off. He said, "well it's just an old fishing boat", I said yeah but it is his yacht, it's all he can afford, he takes impecable care of it, he's 80 years old and that is to last the rest of his life and you will respect it and him or you ain't working for me, on second thought your fired. One' mans ghetto may be another mans mansion, we got to respect one another.Well, anyway, no one tool or method works for every situation, try what you know but don't be afraid of making a little change. The one boat I was using 60 grt, was going slow, went to 40 and bang things got twice as fast. Have seen it go the other way, go to a lesser grit and iproved speed.It just takes time, let the paper do the work and as was in the movie Karate Kid, wax a on, wax a off, wax a on, wax a off, build those pec's and arms, take up a new hobbie, like arm wrestling. (Ken Cox, O'Day)
Ok, a couple of things you may initially disagree with, but while I was at Strictly Sail in Chicago I went pretty much head to head with some factory guys and have changed my opinions on a few things and believe me I don't change what has worked for a long time for me easily.Here are some thoughts. First, VC-17 is an excellent paint, second I will never use it again!Reason being I can get as good of a bottom with the two upper end Interlux products, one is for salt water and one is for fresh. You can get as smooth of a bottom, it will last multiple years and will burnish as smooth or smoother. You can touch up easier, do a larger build up for less cost, don't need to do every year, indicator layers and more. The difference in VC-17 and the top end products could not I bet be measured in performance on the race course, you can make more time up by saving tons of hours doing bottom paint and having more time for rig maint. and time to practice and reduce errors on the course. You would lose more time in a blown tack than the difference you have with VC-17. My race boat is not kept in the water but inside and covered, it is performance waxed before every race by my crew.Third I wlll never use the 2000 series epoxy product of Interlux(I did three last year), I like this stuff and have used it for years and will never use it again. Here is why, it refers to micro plates. I don't have a catalogue or can in front of me so a little memory work here. That chemical is the vein dust out of granite that is used to ABSORB and channel the water out of the stone. It will also fracture and fail and still give the possibility of a local blister, but does reduce the possibility of large scale multiple blisters.The Interlux bottom paint doesn't HAVE to be sprayed but it could be. I think you get better build up by rolling and then you can burnish it better. I think if you spray it you get a cheaper thinner job. I used to have a competitor that sprayed bottom paint, he did a lot of jobs fast and cheap but had to do them more often. I would almost guarantee you that if you spray it you waste a major portion that never makes it onto the boat and is paid for and lost, now with it thinner if you burnish there is less to burnish and you will re-coat sooner.Now for what I think is the final items, blisters and barrier coat. I will take them one at a time. Blisters, three options, take the one you like they are all epoxy. Marine Tex, two part Epoxy, sands easily, easy to work with. Interlux, I think the part number is like 402 & 403, it has recently been reformulated, not as good as the old product, thinner, sags more in a 24 hour time frame, harder to sand, can cross contaminate, must be purchased in larger quanity and most of the time requires two layers, that shoots a week end all to hell. Final choice, West or MAS Epoxy, tricker to mix with fillers, be careful to get the right filler, glass fibers can cause major lung problems, hardest of them all to sand and fair.Barrier coat. This is the one that will make you think but think it through before you disagree, because I argued to great length here at the boat show. I no longer use Interlux 2000 series because there is a better product, West Systems or MAS. I prefer MAS, the reason being, less thermal build/distortion and no amine blush. I have used West for years for many things but not barrier coat, late last year had to use MAS to finish a repair job as I couldn't get West in time to complete on time. I used the MAS and it is more user friendly, 2-1 is easier to use in small quantity's than 3-1, as least for me. Don't have to have the pumps that fail waste product etc. I also no longer use Acetone to clean fiberglass. This also leave a residue that has to be cleaned and now I use thinner. I no longer will use Imron paint either. My lungs say thank you. Pigment can be added to MAS for color. The MAS can be sprayed but I wouldn't, it will require two people, one to roll and one to tip, would get in area's not wanted, overspary etc.. You must also not get in joints like the rudder to hull. You must also remove the tape faster so as not to get it hardened in. I also think the product cost for a MAS barrier coat will be cheaper than the Interlux but haven't put a pencil to it. I could give more reasons but this should cover it.Your local Boaters World has the MAS, in fact they have discontinued the West line. (Ken Cox, O'Day)
In the past I have used a grinder on the keel to remove rust. This last year I had a fellow come and sandblast the bottom as well as the keel. In my opinion, the only way to go. It took about 30 minutes for all the old paint to be removed from the bottom of my 26 footer. I went to the Interlux web site and decided on using Primicon for the base coat and Micron for the finish. October the boat will be hauled for the winter and if the paint is still attached to the bottom, I will be a very happy Grampian owner. Fairing the bottom and keel did take some time. The keel isn't symmetrical because when it is poured the one side of the keel doesn't match the other side. I use 3M Premium Filler for this job. Where the keel meets the hull, I use Sikaflex. you might want to ask Jan Mundy at DIY Magazine, about having the bottom peeled. It sounded interesting but I decided to follow a more traditional route.
I did run into one problem at launch time in the spring. I thought the bottom paint had dried and therefore allowed the hull to sit on the support pads of the cradle. When the crane lifted my boat to put it in the water, one of the pads was stuck to the hull. It took a lot of effort for the pad to be removed. I would be interested if any one has a solution for this problem. It sure makes you gulp when you see the fiberglass bulge when the pad is removed, I was surprised I didn't end up with a portion of the bottom torn off the hull. (Seventstoo - Delphi)